# Breeding heifers



## Patrickdaley

Hi everyone, i have 5 weanling bucket fed heifers and hoping to buy another one soon. They are only about 6 months at the minute but when the time comes i will put them in calf and use them as suckler cows. What bull would be best to put on Herefords,angus,simmental,limousin
I was thinking of putting an angus or herford on british breeds (Hereford,angus) and a limousine on continentals. What do u all think?


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## DoubleR

All are good breeds. Being involved in the angus breed of course I'd say angus.  
The biggest thing is low birth weight on whatever you do choose. On heifers I feel that's more important than anything.


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## Patrickdaley

Ok thanks. And should i put angus on the continentals too


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## DoubleR

Angus is good on just about anything. It's crossed with everything from Herefords (black white face offspring) to brahma (Brangus) to Wagyu. All are in demand.
I'd recommend staying away from Charolais until you've had a few calves. They tend to have large (BW) Birth weights. Great cattle but higher calving problems due to calf size on average.


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## Patrickdaley

Ok thanks yee i was thinking the same myseld


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## Patrickdaley

Sorry i meant *myself*


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## Markwright

Use a Jersey bull for their 1st calf.

they'll have em at a trot.

breed those heifers weighing bout 550 to 650 lbs ( you've got 9 months of grow time after they're bred )

save your 1/2 blood jersey/beef heifers...they make great cows.


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## Patrickdaley

No i dont think ill use jerseys because they dont fatten well even if they are sucklers and i wont make much money on them so i think ill try an angus or a Hereford


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## Markwright

Perhaps use wagyu then. 
aukaushi the red cattle from Japan also come to mind. that program bases out of Amarillo, TX, btw.


Jersey is the highest propensity marbling breed in the usa, followed vby red angus then black angus.

they fatten fine. quite a few use em to calf heifers because they calf easy and when keeping the heifer calves you have that ease of BW carry to thus breed those right back to angus or whatever and calf easy then too.

an ideal big range ranch kinda cow is actually a 1/4jerseyx3/4angus.

half blood corrientexangus bulls work well for folks that use those.

the object is you want those heifers to calf themselves with no issues.

if ai ing use a bull like New Standard, have seen big strings of those averaged 68lbs at birth out of heifers.


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## Patrickdaley

Ok thanks for the advice


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## gumcreek

Use a low birthweight angus bull on them the first time. They should weigh 60% of their mature weight before breeding. That means your continental bred heifers should be around 900 and British bred heifers around 700lbs. before breeding. After the first calf I would go with a limo or simi bull on them. The calves will mash the scales.


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## Patrickdaley

Yep was thinking the same myself! roughly what would that be in kgs do u know? Thanks, patrick


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## gumcreek

Around 400kg on the continental breeds and 320 on the British breeds


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## Markwright

*use a Herfy or Angus on the continentals Also. You*

need that 1st trip to be Easy for em ( it helps stimulate more long term Motherly Love for Her calves ).

I'd likely use a Jersey or CorrientexAngus bull on all of em etc...

You get em into to much Pain that 1st trip and having calves is No Gain...for Her or you either most likely.





Patrickdaley said:


> Hi everyone, i have 5 weanling bucket fed heifers and hoping to buy another one soon. They are only about 6 months at the minute but when the time comes i will put them in calf and use them as suckler cows. What bull would be best to put on Herefords,angus,simmental,limousin
> I was thinking of putting an angus or herford on british breeds (Hereford,angus) and a limousine on continentals. What do u all think?


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## gumcreek

No reason to use a junk bull and take a hit on the first calves. Don't baby them. Breed them to a good low birth weight bull and expect them to produce. If my heifers can't calve a normal sized calf the first time unassisted they grow wheels.


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## Patrickdaley

Hi @gumcreek i wouldn't use a jersey bull either thanks they make good cows but are terrible for beef they dont fatten i think my heifers should easily be able to calve an angus bull and the continentals should be able to handle an easy calving limo bull but i think ill stick with an angus the first time around, maybe a Hereford but i think ill use an angus, thanks everyone for the good advice


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## rene

Junk bull? Jersy bull are not junk... a bull that will clo ne himself or the mama is a good bull in my book. And a good bull will make u m


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## rene

$$!!!!! $$$$$


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## gumcreek

I guess they have their place but it isn't making beef.


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## rene

Not completely true either. I see dairy steers and bulls sellin @ same $ weighing around 1ooo lbs as a black steer


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## rene

I guess its about knowin how to market ur own goods to get the best $


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## Patrickdaley

What would that be in kgs


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## rene

453.59 kilograms


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## Patrickdaley

Thanks a mil


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## SupaDexta

Are you AI'ing? I'd find a neighbour with a good bull and use that for those few head. Use a purebred beef bull, of good genetics. A neighbour who has been around a while with good stock, will be able to help guide you as to what works locally. 

I don't care what people say - a dairy cross isn't going to measure up, in gain or price, it just does not happen. Even in this strange market, you may only see a top end dairy cross approach a low end beef feeder, they certainly aren't even matches. Go back to more normal market times and the spread is even greater.

Angus or hereford would be your best bet this time around. Both are bringing $ right now in most any market, and are easy to find usually and will provide easy calving generally.

Also if you simply google 'xx kg to lbs' it will spit out the conversion quick and easy.. You'll see pounds used on many cattle boards. xx being whatever number you need changed over. 2.2lb to a kg roughly.


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## Patrickdaley

Thanks a mil, yes i agree 100% dairy cross stock isnt going to add up in terms of money


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## Markwright

*Get a Life SupaDexta. heck when 1 can*

buy those strait Black 1/2 Angi X 1/2 steins for $145 cwt weighing 400, GET EM BOUGHT ALL DAY LONG.

They are strait #1's fat.

sooo your selling for a $20cwt premium over the intial purchase ( per cwt ).

heck, I run em as all naturals and actually got over $177 cwt last week for em ( sold over 2,100 head...all exempt from reporting ).

don't know where the usa "supposed fat market" was quoted...but I am Good at Selling Cattle ( might have been the "fastest rat" last week 2 ). 



SupaDexta said:


> Are you AI'ing? I'd find a neighbour with a good bull and use that for those few head. Use a purebred beef bull, of good genetics. A neighbour who has been around a while with good stock, will be able to help guide you as to what works locally.
> 
> I don't care what people say - a dairy cross isn't going to measure up, in gain or price, it just does not happen. Even in this strange market, you may only see a top end dairy cross approach a low end beef feeder, they certainly aren't even matches. Go back to more normal market times and the spread is even greater.
> 
> Angus or hereford would be your best bet this time around. Both are bringing $ right now in most any market, and are easy to find usually and will provide easy calving generally.
> 
> Also if you simply google 'xx kg to lbs' it will spit out the conversion quick and easy.. You'll see pounds used on many cattle boards. xx being whatever number you need changed over. 2.2lb to a kg roughly.


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## rene

Its all aboutknowing how to market ur goods to achieve the best $. I agree with u markwright


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## Patrickdaley

Yes but jerseys make no money where i live think ill just use a pedigree beef bull


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## Patrickdaley

Most of my calves are out of British friesan and holstein cows already so If they have any more holstein blood in them they wont fatten.


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## SupaDexta

Markwright said:


> buy those strait Black 1/2 Angi X 1/2 steins for $145 cwt weighing 400, GET EM BOUGHT ALL DAY LONG.


So you're saying you're finding 400lb half dairy crosses, for 1.45? And meanwhile good beef animals of the same weight are bringing closer to $3? I'm not clear on what you're saying above. 

This guy is talking about breeding what animals he has - only a few - to provide calves for market.. Not looking to pick up cheap crosses to breed. So I think I'd rather be on the 3 dollar selling end, than the 1.45.


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## Markwright

*Patrick, don't know*

Your local, or how decent the club calf market is there.

I'd use a roan Shorthorn Bull on em and sell club calves with Color.

or if you want to stay more black...say a black or red simmy. 

Also...believe it or not there are plenty of Chars now that calf easier than Black Angus.

say the Platinum line from North West Missouri State University.

keep in mind that fresian and steins both carry a white gene...and black angus does too.

soooo to stay solid color go with a Red Shorthorn or Red Gene Char or Red Simmy ( calves will be blacks and reds w no line backs etc..






Patrickdaley said:


> Most of my calves are out of British friesan and holstein cows already so If they have any more holstein blood in them they wont fatten.


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## smokingsixgun

Get you a homozygous black bull and you are going to have black bodied calves . If it were me and these are first calf heifers I would go with a homozygous black herford bull and you will have black bald face calves that will gain good and sale at the top price at market


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## Markwright

*smokingsixgun,*

THINK.

there's a white gene in all the cows. 
they are gonna throw some great color with Any black bull.

I'd be tempted to use a Pied bull on em ( a Captain ).

be thee best thickest black and red show calves that walk.






smokingsixgun said:


> Get you a homozygous black bull and you are going to have black bodied calves . If it were me and these are first calf heifers I would go with a homozygous black herford bull and you will have black bald face calves that will gain good and sale at the top price at market


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## rene

So black bull and black cow throw red


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## SupaDexta

rene said:


> So black bull and black cow throw red


They can depending on their make up.. One of my current bulls is red, out of 2 blacks.

If a heterozygous bull is mated to a homozygous black cow, all the calves will be black.

If mated to a heterozygous black cow, there's a 25% chance the calf will be homozygous black, 50% chance it will be heterozygous black, and 25% chance it will be red.


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## Patrickdaley

To be honest i dont really care about the colour as long as there good quality. @markwright i see where your coming from but i dont think theres any point using a dairy bull and earning far less on there calves when my heifers should calve an easy calving pedigree angus or Hereford bull. Dairy bulls are only making about â‚¬1.30 per kilo in the mart while beef bulls are making around â‚¬2.70 or in some cases over â‚¬3.00


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## Markwright

*Current time tend to indicate*

That Red Color may be predominate in some cases ( those are blacks on blacks btw )

maybe God and Mother Nature put Red Angus into the mix for a reason ( more wonderment and jobs for man? LOL ) 



SupaDexta said:


> They can depending on their make up.. One of my current bulls is red, out of 2 blacks.
> 
> If a heterozygous bull is mated to a homozygous black cow, all the calves will be black.
> 
> If mated to a heterozygous black cow, there's a 25% chance the calf will be homozygous black, 50% chance it will be heterozygous black, and 25% chance it will be red.


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## rene

So to understand it a little bit a cow black and a black bull and it throws read it could be an indication of Red Angus blood in them


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## SupaDexta

Red and Blacks both came from Aberdeen Angus. Here's some history on them

http://www.redangus.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103&Itemid=182


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## rene

Oh wow cool


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## MWRR

Look for a AI bull that has been used in multiple herds (not just a couple) with a low birth weight and HIGH ACCURATE epd. As far as breed goes, any of the beef breeds you mentioned will work great. Here, black will bring more money.


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